Wild Tutor - Adam Warlock

Card draw simulator

Odds: 0% – 0% – 0% more
Derived from
None. Self-made deck here.
Inspiration for
Adam Warlock 0 0 2 2.0
Wild Tutor - Adam Warlock 0 0 0 1.0
Uncle Adam needs YOU! 0 0 0 3.0
Wild Tutor - Adam Warlock 0 0 0 2.0

Brian-V · 15093

KennedyHawk from the Marvel Champions Monthly team was kind enough to provide an expert playthrough of this deck!


Overview:

  • At first glance, you may look at this deck and not understand why I have included certain cards, but I assure you, there is a reason. This is not a beginner deck, it does requires a specific way to play it, but when piloted correctly it is very strong! (I have beaten the MTS campaign on Expert with full health/no threat in every scenario, as well as solo'd Ronan/Expert).

  • Not only is this deck super powerful, but more importantly, it is so much fun!!! The more I play this deck the more fun I have with its playstyle both in it's engaging fast start and combos, but also its ability to control and adapt to the situation at hand. If you like playing that jack-of-all-trades class in RPGs/MMOs that has a lot utility/crowd-control, that's what it reminds me of.

  • My first week playing Adam Warlock, I didn't really like how he played, it just didn't seem like you could maximize what he's best at. But after putting this deck together, it's definitely some of the most fun I've had playing the game.


"Why is this deck so strong Brian-V?"

1. Fastest Setup:

  • Adam Warlock is heavily dependent on Mystic Senses. This deck allows you to get both of those cards on the board as quickly as possible by discarding/tutoring to help you get your Battle Mage going ASAP.

2. Versatility & Total Control:

  • This deck allows Adam Warlock to be so versatile that in any given turn you can go any way you want. Why? Because you're searching your deck every turn for the exact cards you need. This requires you to know the deck very well, but literally every turn you are making decisions based on situation and you can go in any number of ways to make the most efficient play. More than any other deck I've played, you control exactly what you want to do from turn to turn, and you are constantly making decisions.

3. Best Use of Entire Toolkit:

  • This deck utilizes Adam Warlock's deck-building and hero cards to their maximum ability. That is, getting the most out of "Battle Mage", maximizing his powerful event cards, utilizing his Mystic trait and associated cards, and speeding through his deck so you can use Quantum Magic to recur the exact cards you need from his discard pile.

Why the "Power of" cards?

  • So, this is the #1 thing that gets asked of me with this version and some very skeptical of. Yes, I do know that there are limited targets for them, but I did put a lot of thought into this deck and they work with the way I designed it. They are specifically in there because of how easy it is to manipulate your deck with this version of Adam Warlock. I really think you have to play the deck yourself to completely understand it.

  • Aside from the obvious that you can tutor an event to get a match, and that I want to play allies as fast as I can, the "Power of" cards allow me to use Quantum Magic in a way that I wouldn't be able to without them. For example, late game when I have my board set up and I draw a Quantum Magic I can really do what I want in that given turn. It depends on what "Power Of" I have in my hand and what I want to do that turn, but if I want to stun, I can go get whichever card match I need from the discard pile. You can also do this with allies, which you can then tutor/draw with.


Set-Up:

Mystic Senses!

Adam is so reliant on Mystic Senses x2 this is your highest priority. The way this deck is designed, it puts that at the top priority by speeding through your deck and thinning it out to get those cards. How?

  1. Tutoring cards out of your deck by removing events with those allies (Kaluu, Brother Voodoo, Gamora).

  2. Discarding cards using Summoning Spell, Magic Attack, Zone of Silence, Cosmic Awareness, Shield Spell, Karmic Blast, and Gamora, and Spiritual Meditation.

  3. Drawing cards with Nick Fury, Drop Kick, and Spiritual Meditation.

  4. Once you get all of those cards in your discard pile, use Quantum Magic if you need to to get your Mystic Senses Battle Mage set up. Your tutoring allies will help you get this event.

Amazing Turn 1's:

  • This requires a lot practice and strategy with your mulligans. But you can have some crazy turn 1s that not only gets your set up up and off the ground immediately, but also gets you a few allies on the board, removes threat and gets some damage out all on Turn 1. Not only that, but you can even go through most of your deck on Turn 1 depending on your starting hand.

  • I would recommend practicing your Turn 1's and Mulligans, you kind of need to know what you're searching for. There are so many combinations, but you basically want to get an ally down with some type of cost-saving combo to tutor another card that will then get you another ally that can tutor another card, etc. etc.

  • *Also of Note: Mystic Senses is a 'Superpower', thus Deft Focus is not a horrible opening card either.


Versatility + Combos + Control:

Wild:

Tutor:

  • The reason all these combinations work is the versatility of being able to tutor what card you want. What do you need in any given situation? This deck will allow you to tutor that card -- be it an ally, aspect for 'Battle Mage', THW/ATK, Stun/Confuse, Draw or Recursion.

(Note: Many times this will be dictated by what you have in your hand, especially when it's a "Power of..." card! At the very least, you're grabbing a card to use for a resource.)


Late-Game Strategy:

Cost-Effective Damage:

Allies:

  • You're using allies to tutor whatever event you need based on situation. Not only that, you're using them to chump-block and do one round of THW or ATK. You're relying on your events for damage, which there is plenty of. You want your allies in your deck to tutor more.

Again: Versatility + Control

Total Control of Your Own Deck:

  • In this deck you will constantly check you discard pile for what's let in it and weigh the likelihood of you drawing what you need or tutoring the event you need.

  • Do you have a "Power of..." in your hand? Look at your discard pile. What is the likelihood you tutor into Summoning Spell, Drop Kick, Concussive Blow or Tackle.


The Cards:

Card Explanations/Combos:

  • Drop Kick benefits from: The Power of Aggression + Martial Prowess + Karmic Staff + Many Wild Resources

  • Soul World: This card also benefits from the design of this deck. Once I have my set up I'm tearing through my deck usually in 1 or 2 turns. Cosmic Ward is an excellent card and mitigates the negative of this. Late game I have multiple soul counters on this card and heal to full at will. This card isn't so important at the very start of your game, but you want to get it down when you're about to run out of your deck the first time or the second time through. Late game, there are also several ways to deck yourself to use Soul World.

  • Cosmic Ward: I love this card. I really believe this deck utilizes Warlock's kit the best. Basically when you want to heal, you will confuse with Concussive Blow or "Think Fast!", lay down a Cosmic Ward or 2, then flip to 'Alter-Ego' and heal with Soul World. Literally, there is nothing the villain can do and there are no surprises.

  • Gamora: You actually want to keep Gamora on the board to use her response. You'll do this with "Battle Mage: Protection" ability. Not only does this allow you to draw an extra card every turn, but it will also allow you to once again speed through your deck to add Soul World counters and control your deck.

  • Quantum Magic: Get your set-up, then go get what you need, especially late game. The 'Power of's' make it cost-effective. Even something like Shwarma is always a great card in campaign.


Hope you have as much fun with this deck as I do! My latest decks:


1493197797-adam-warlock-1634052631957.jpg
175 comments

Nov 02, 2021 99neil99 · 9

The power of cards arent efficient what so ever in this deck. That's 5 new cards you get to add to this deck. You can really boost it well.

Nov 02, 2021 Vortilion · 28

Sounds very promissing, one thing is missing in my opinion though: Armored Vest Saved my life a dozen times... Also why not include Combat Training/Heroic Intuition too boost his really bad stats? Lets him thwart/attack for 4 with his cape....

Nov 03, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@99neil99 With all due respect, I just don't think you understand how this deck is played. The "Power of" cards are in fact, very efficient, and I would not take them out b/c they are essential to the deck and would really defeat its purpose if you removed them. This deck wants to constantly play allies to tutor cards and mill through your deck. The "Power of" cards are essential to playing those allies early and often b/c you have to get Battle Mage going ASAP. The deck plays so quickly because it is so efficient with those cards. The "Power of" cards are required to play constant allies for their tutor ability every turn throughout the game and then for stun/confuse mid-late game. This deck just plays different than other decks. You are drawing at least 2 cards every turn with this deck and at least tutoring for one event -- many of which become efficient b/c of those "Power of" cards. And worst case scenario, you use them for Battle Mage to draw 2 cards depending on what you have left in your draw pile. If you're able to search through your draw deck and pick the card you want to match the "Power of" card, how is that not absolutely efficient? This isn't like other decks where they sit in your hand. I would try the deck first, read my write-up (which admittedly needs some editing) and then you'll see how it plays. Any questions, please ask, good luck! :)

Nov 03, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@Vortilion This is just a different deck that isn't designed to maximize his Cape and really that card isn't very important to it. Don't get me wrong, I like it, it can be useful, and it's another card you get out of your draw deck (it being an upgrade), but it may be the least important card. The cards that buff his stats are just getting in your way in this deck. Warlock's best ability is his fully set up Battle Mage ability, his insane cost-efficient event damage/thwart cards, and his best deck ability is that he can use all the Mystic events (which may be the best aspect cards in the game). So this deck is only designed to maximize his best strengths and do it ASAP. I don't play on standard, and as you may know, you don't have time to waste on Expert/Heroic. Those buff cards would just delay what you're trying to do with this deck. As far as each card is concerned, Armored Vest is not needed. You're just playing allies to block, get one use out of them every turn because you want them to go back to your deck anyway to tutor again with them (not including Gamora). I rarely take a direct hit from a villain, if at all the entire game, especially late game. Combat Training, you're not trying to do your damage with his ATK, his event cards do a ton of damage, you're using Battle Mage and allies -- that's how you're doing your damage with this deck and yo do more than enough. 1 extra damage per turn is just not worth a card that slows you down. Heroic Intuition, also not worth it for 2 reasons. First, his THW Battle Mage ability is the most efficient use of the ability. Second, his thwart cards are so good, you don't need the card. And last, if you want to add 1 of these cards, you have to add 3 others b/c of the deck building requirement. It's just not worth it with what you're trying to do with this deck. You just have to know this deck just plays differently than others. It's not an auto-pilot deck and I think maybe I can make that more clear in the write-up and it needs some editing. Thank you for the comment! :)

Nov 03, 2021 99neil99 · 9

If your deck revolves around 1 card then that's fine, but in no way is that efficient. Also, the power of cards only apply to 1 card each. I think 1 applies to 2 cards. If you draw a red power of card and your 1 yellow 2 card then you're SOL. I was merely pointing out you could easily boost the efficiency of the deck since you havent. I never said it didnt work as is. Cheers

Nov 03, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

Sorry @99neil99, I just don't think you understand the deck. I certainly mean no offense, maybe try to play it first. Also, don't forget your ability to manipulate your deck with discards and Quantum Magic to use your "Power of" cards. You're not SOL, because you're getting a use of them from Battle Mage, and searching for the cards you need. If you have The Power of Leadership and you tutor Summoning Spell, how can you have a more efficient play? I see how one can look at the deck at first glance and not see that you get to pick and choose what cards are in your hand, but in this deck you actually do. If I have Tackle in my discard and The Power of Protection in my hand, and go get it with Quantum Magic, how is that not efficient? If I have The Power of Aggression and tutor Drop Kick, I don't think there's a more efficient card for it. You can tutor for Spiritual Meditation and choose the Power of Card as the discard. There are just so many ways that those 4 cards aren't just sitting in your hand, but allowing the deck to do what it does efficiently which is a necessity. Maybe give it a try first? Or maybe it's just not for you, which is okay! But I've played this deck A LOT! Trust me when I say, I would not take those cards out of this deck, because they are essential to the way it is played.

Nov 03, 2021 dr00 · 12019

i see so many parrots who just say 'EFFICIENCY' and are simply slaves to it. these parrots would rather slowly lose a war of attrition and pat themselves on the back and say 'well, at least my deck wasn't inefficient!'

nevermind that the deck lost. i think what's most telling about 'BE MORE EFFICIENT' advice is how completely nonspecific it is and how there is absolutely no follow-up once it is challenged.

a great deck as always, @Brian-V. it may not be efficient but it seems it's better for it :)

Nov 03, 2021 99neil99 · 9

@dr00 Keep your assumptions & negative comments to yourself.

"...is absolutely no follow-up once it is challenged." Did you ask? Of course you didn't. Instead, you assumed & accused. Tsk tsk. Try staying positive and simply asking questions going forward. You shouldn've learned never to assume long ago, but it's never too late to start. Cheers.

Nov 03, 2021 dr00 · 12019

speaking of assumptions, did i mention i was talking to or about you? tsk tsk. but it's never too late to learn. cheers :)

Nov 03, 2021 Vortilion · 28

@Brian-V Thanks for the quick response mate! Tried the deck yesterday (playing the mts-campaign with Adam and switched to this deck) against Hela. It really is fast, I never set up my board faster than this! I just cant tutor a card every turn though, dunno how you manage to do this. I'd love to see a playthrough with this deck in action! Either way it is the most enjoyable Adam-Deck I played so far, and I tried a few. Guess what: I'm not even missing Armored Vest or the Stat-Upgrades! ;-) I think playing it for the first time yesterday it was quite a successful test-run, even though we lost (Hela's quite hard, at least on our first try... she outschemed us).

Again, thanks for the great deck, and every doubter here: Just give this deck a try before saying "it is not efficient"! I can say: it is. Also: It is FUN!

Nov 03, 2021 KennedyHawk · 8866

@Brian-V How dare you make such a fun and interesting deck that requires skilled nuance and tag it for beginners. #DeckRuined (But seriously fun deck - what made you include The Power of Justice and The Power of Aggression over Determination and Audacity?)

Nov 03, 2021 Lessismoriarity · 51

Gave this deck a run last evening, and loved it. I thought I was going to be bored by Warlock's deck restrictions, but this leans into the draw backs in a very clever way. Well done.

Nov 03, 2021 99neil99 · 9

@KennedyHawk I had the exact same thought. Be useful for all cards vs just 1. Never once said the deck was bad. Just seemed like it could still be slightly boosted. Definitely, curious on the reasoning as well :)

Nov 03, 2021 KennedyHawk · 8866

@99neil99 Please don't lump me in with your rather aggressive commenting approach. I think the Power of cards in this deck are amazing and make the deck very consistent - especially with the use of Quantum Magic which is often ignored in Adam's kit. This deck is very cognitive and requires a lot of decision making - including the Power of's helps make that decision making easier - I certainly wouldn't drop all 5 but was thinking of just swapping the two.

Nov 03, 2021 99neil99 · 9

Brian-V & I are both friendly. You can read that above :). Curiosity is not aggression. Unlike you, I dont attack people & say Im better. KennedyHawk...

Nov 03, 2021 Mag · 7592

I tried this deck on expert and enjoyed it. Tutoring upon tutoring in a Warlock deck to make it more consistent is genius. I wish I thought of it.

Glad to see the legendary Brian-V back at it.

Nov 03, 2021 huevobeans · 7

Such a shame that this cool decklist had its discussion derailed by toxicity.

@dr00's comment was totally unnecessary and really toxic, could have just complimented the list and left. There's no need to build this strawman and call people parrots. Seeing an 11k account act like this is quite embarrassing and highly uncalled for, since the original comment, while a bit too blunt, is a question that I had and it can now be used for OP to edit his description to cover it(which I think he already did).

@Brian-V To try to contribute a bit with the discussion, which are the biggest difficulties that this deck face when playing solo, and which kind of decks are good partners for this list. Is the new Black Panther ally synergy with Summoning Spell a thing to look for when he gets released?

Nov 03, 2021 InigoMontoya · 454

@Brian-V Thank you for this deck! It made me re-think how I've been using Adam Warlock so far. I'm curious if One Way or Another was close to making the cut, and why you didn't include it?

It's fantastic for deck churn, and if you pull a Quantum Magic, can be pulled right back into your hand, and played again.

Nov 03, 2021 SpiderPK · 1

Great deck as usual ! You can use Call for Aid, to mill your deck and have easier Brother Woodoo or Kaluu.

Nov 03, 2021 Truffaz · 1

It's really an interesting take, and i got there after watching Kennedy Hawk playing an Adam deck on youtube. That was my comment after his video : How do you like Adam Warlock ? I really tought deckbuilding would be boring with him (just a collection of good stuff), but battlemage really change that : as every justice card for example can remove threat, i prefer to play card like turn the tide, one way, or stealth strike so i have more option (clear the area is the same as using battlemage if you don't factor mystic sense) or card that are really realy good at what that aspect does. After around 20 games, i prefer to not play the neutral allies and helicarrier (and the power of, but that was never a consideration for me) to play more aspect card, and you seem to miss at least one in your hand to much for me. But i really like a lot of your's, we are really close on what we play for aspect card, i never tried Angela or Falcon for example. I really like Armor vest, as it's his best stat, and with the cape, you can use a leadership card to untap then twart, and still have +1 defense. I never tried the power of, but i'll get to them after playing some other heroes, and i never tried sumoning spell, because i have more cheap allies. I'm pretty sure i'm gonna remove 4 neutral card to have better battle mage and warlock specific event, but the power of were never a consideration that i now need to try. Your choice of aspect card make me think you got to the same point about what Adam need considering his ability. Not sure i like Drop kick, but 1/40 is pretty non relevant

Nov 03, 2021 abbojm01 · 1

@InigoMontoya I added One Way or Another along with 1 other card for each aspect in addition to this decklist and have loved it so far! Added Audacity for agression, Rapid Response for leadership, and Momentum Shift for protection. I found i like having a few more options for his ability. One way is great to burn thru the deck and makes up for the added cards. Momentum shift keeps you in hero more often, or discard to heal gramora for another event. Rapid Response, is just great with these allys, and the aggression card is just there to be damage for free (i didnt want to add another card that needed to be played).

Love the deck! it is really good and quite fun. Playing 2 handed solo with justice Spectrum and am having a blast.

Nov 03, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@Vortilion There are a couple ways to do this, but you should be drawing (not from BM) or tutoring every turn at least once. One thing is to make sure that when you're at the end of your deck to put the allies that tutor draw back into it so you can draw them up again. Gamora also should stay on the board and heal her with BM so you can use her just about every turn.

The other thing that takes practice with this deck is that you can control the pace through discarding. So if you need to speed through it, lean more towards discarding more. Other times you may not want to discard 4 every time with his events, for example. This deck just takes practice and each time you play it you kinda figure out something new.

Thanks for your comments and glad you're enjoying the deck!

Nov 03, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@KennedyHawk Haha, you're right, I shouldn't have tagged it beginner. I kind of just checked all the boxes without thinking!

We talked a bit about your question offline, but maybe others would benefit. I think after playing the deck, you were right on. And that is mid-late game it allows me to use Quantum Magic efficiently to go back and get Tackle and Concussive Blow and really just play it with that one card in my hand. You also mentioned how often you are able to set up subsequent turns ensuring you get a "Power of" match even if you don't get matches through tutoring. I think you just kinda have to play it to fully understand all the ways you can use the "Power of's".

You could certainly try those cards, but for me I would rather easily set up Martial Prowess mid-game, and then mid-late game constantly use Drop Kick and Concussive Blow. The way it plays I prefer to have total control over the villain. For example, I played Tower Defense last night and I kept both villains stunned/confused the entire game. It is much easier than people think, and in this deck Quantum Magic becomes a very useable card, which I find more fun and engaging.

Thanks for the comment man! I always put a lot of value in your opinions on decks and gameplay.

Nov 03, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@Lessismoriarity Thanks for the comment, glad you're having fun with the deck. I totally agree, I didn't like Warlock at first, but find this deck to be some of the most fun I've had in the game.

Nov 03, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@Mag Thanks for giving it a try, Mag. I appreciate the thoughts and the feedback. But I am glad to return the favor! Often with your decks I also think, why didn't I think of that?! Haha.

Nov 03, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@huevobeans Yes, sir! Great minds think alike. When I was testing different versions of this deck I definitely thought about Black Panther. I just don't know how I'd fit him in! We'll see what else comes out down the pike, but I would like one more ally that can tutor.

Nov 03, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@InigoMontoya I'm embarrassed to say I considered a lot of other cards, but I did not think about One Way or Another! And I don't know how I didn't because I love the card and it fits right in with design-wise! I think that's a great idea, but I just don't know what I'd cut it out for. I'm not totally against a 44-card deck, but I have to say for me, I kind of like the way it plays as-is. I really go through the deck fast enough, but drawing cards is never bad. But yeah, I usually don't have any problem with thwarting so I can definitely see that card at the top of the list if I was to do a 44-card deck. Excellent idea, mate!

(Unrelated, Princess Bride is a movie I can watch over and over and never get tired of.)

Nov 03, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@SpiderPK Thanks, man. Hmm, I didn't consider Call for Aid and I think a few other cards I would think about first. I really just have had no problem having 2-3 allies on the board at all times. It could be worth a try though, not ruling it out. Thanks for the suggestion. :)

Nov 03, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@Truffaz I'll have to check out that @KennedyHawk video. I have no doubt that his deck is really good -- he's one of the best deckbuilders/players in the game from what I've observed. And I have known him for awhile way back in SWLCG days and he was great at that game too. But I think that what he plays is just a different deck than this one and I really wouldn't try to do what he does with that deck, in this one. They just play differently from what you're describing. And I think you have to kind of understand that to understand why I have included the cards that I have. That's just my initial feeling from what you're describing. Thanks for the comment :)

Nov 03, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@abbojm01 I am definitely not against the 44-card deck, I don't think I'd go any higher though. And from what I see, I think those are great additions. I prefer to have the 40, because I like to set up Battle Mage quicker and have a little more control over the deck. But with only 4 more cards and those cards specifically, it might not even make a difference. I would be afraid I wouldn't hit my allies as consistently turn to turn, because sometimes I even wish I had one more that can tutor. Was that an issue at all?

Nov 04, 2021 Truffaz · 1

Oh for sure the deck are different, but i feel like the choice of card can be governed by the same réalisation : you don't need your justice card to thwart, or your agression card to deal damage, because of battlemage. So you look for other things aspect card can give you : one way is a good exemple, turn the tide too, and i really like looking for trouble also. All those card to stuff that could be in another aspect, so they have a different use than their battlemage ine (for justice for exemple is the type of card Adam doesnt really want). The mystic event are just too good and efficient even if they dont subscribe to that philosophy to not play them. That's also the reason i like armored vest, it make leadership battlemage ok. And protection is already the most versatile if you have ally that have 2 in a stat. So i think i would try to mix your deck (the power of) with mine, that is closer to Kenedyhawk, having ally from every aspect and make the call seems to make the power even better (i try to limit neutral, si no power of all of us, and after testing 4, 5 ans 6, i prefer 5 aspect card in a 40 card deck). I also tries 44 card deck at some point, but mystic sense are so important that i prefer 40.

Nov 04, 2021 Dawncaller · 1

The deck looks great, but I am a bit confused: You write that you can tutor whatever you need via allies but isn't it random what you get? Ofc you can get a targeted card from your discard via quantum magic after that, but you can't really plan what your allies will fetch you at the beginning of the turn?

Nov 04, 2021 InigoMontoya · 454

@Brian-V Princess Bride is one of the greatest movies ever. It's worth the rewatch every time.

Thank you again for your write-up and amazing deck. The deck I just submitted is wildly different from yours...

marvelcdb.com

...but I made a bunch of changes to it because of how well your deck makes Adam Warlock function. The power of resources and Gamora are your ideas. :)

Nov 04, 2021 Telcontar · 22

Can I be incredibly dense and ask what you mean by 'tutoring'?

Nov 04, 2021 Vortilion · 28

@Telcontar It means getting cards out of your deck or discard pile. The name comes from a Magic Card called „Demonic Tutor“ which lets your search your deck for a specific card.

Nov 04, 2021 Telcontar · 22

@Vortilion ah, thank you! Thought I was missing something :)

Nov 04, 2021 Telcontar · 22

Wait, I am missing something... Other than Quantum Magic how does AW tutor...?

Nov 04, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@Dawncaller

No, it's not totally random. You are searching the top 5 cards for an event or your discard for any card. I definitely didn't want to write that every time, this write-up is too long as it is!

And it's even less random than you might think. You have to think you are going to have a deck size of usually around 20-25 cards in your deck. You're drawing at least 2 cards every turn and milling through your deck so let's say on average 10-15 cards. You can look in your discard pile to see what you still have in your deck.

The odds that you draw into an event you can use or are looking for or more cards you can draw/tutor with are actually quite high and usually you have some type of probability in your head of what you will draw.

Nov 04, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@Telcontar There are tutoring allies in the deck. :)

Nov 04, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@InigoMontoya

My deck does something very specific and I think it does very, very well. I don't think I'd make any changes to it including One Way or Another. But that's not to say there aren't other ways to go with Adam Warlock. The play style of this deck certainly isn't for everyone. Your deck looks really good for what it does though! Congrats, and I'm definitely going to steal some of your formatting. I don't know how to make font bigger? I badly need to edit/streamline this write up to make it more coherent and readable.

Nov 04, 2021 Dawncaller · 1

Okay, thanks for clarifying. Tutoring was very specific as a term for me and I thought I was missing something.

Nov 04, 2021 InigoMontoya · 454

@Brian-V Thanks for the compliment! To get the bigger font when you publish there are three different sized H button (for Header, I think) which give you different sized fonts.

Nov 04, 2021 Vortilion · 28

@InigoMontoya Yes, those are html-Tags. With < strong >text </ strong> (without the spaces) you can make text bold. e.g….

Nov 04, 2021 robinsobigne · 1

Bravo! This deck is an absolute blast, there's nothing else to say.

Nov 04, 2021 abbojm01 · 1

@Brian-V I haven’t found it much of an issue to include the extra four cards, but I want to play it both ways. Your deck works great as is, I just like the shenanigans by using Rapid Response and One Way or Another has good combo with Justice spectrum. She deals with side schemes so easily.

I do wish there was a good tutor red to toss in though. I like the green card being a good target for the power of and keeping you a little bit sturdy when needed.

Nov 04, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@abbojm01

I totally agree with you. I do wish I had one more ally that could tutor an event, but this is our current card pool. If you're looking for a red card, maybe try Plan of Attack for now? You wouldn't be able to grab thwart events, Spiritual Meditation or Quantum Magic, but it was a card I definitely considered. Not sure if it would work in your version though?

Nov 05, 2021 dr00 · 12019

i've played this deck a few times now, and it's so great for making me actively play Quantum Magic, a card that i initially overlooked quite a lot as just 'well it's good if you accidentally discard soul world or something'

the powers ofs are so great here for being able to tutor something without actually losing resources. the only change i'm considering so far is maybe Band Together in lieu of power of leadership, but since it has the potential to provide 0 or just 1, the power of might be better. i think in general i would like it a lot more if i was going to be using adam's leadership discard more haha, but i feel it's probably his least powerful option

what i love about this deck is how it plays a lot like Mage Knight. 'ok, i need to get here or i need to do this... how can i do it with what i have?' and you dig through all of your tools to try to make it happen. @Brian-V has definitely done it again :D

Nov 05, 2021 abbojm01 · 1

@dr00 @Brian-V I literally went through my deck in one turn.. I played Soul World right before resetting my deck with his ability and Mystic Senses. Then followed up with Summoning Spell and hitting Nick Fury about 70% down min deck (it was the only ally in the deck), and then attacked with Gramora, drawing out an event, and following up with Magic Attack and Karmic Staff.. reset my deck again by using One Way or Another. ended with 2 charges on Soul World, flipped to alter ego and healed up. The lawls and sheer shenanigans is too much fun.

Nov 05, 2021 Scientiavore · 5

So I got around to playing the deck, and I'm going to be honest: It's kind of a hot mess. It feels like a downgrade compared to other decks I've played. For reference I usually play 1-2 player, on expert/heroic, so my experience could be different in that regards.

That's not to say it's all bad, you have some pretty good ideas here, and you're correct in some of your assessments. You have the general idea down in that you want to cycle through quickly to get your upgrades going, power soul world, and give more opportunities for Quantum Magic.

You may be too proud to ever admit this, but I'm afraid you're wrong about adding the power of cards. Early on in the game, which is the most important and decisive phase, they're pretty much completely useless. Later on they're still unreliable. The Power in all of us is the worst offender of these, since you can't even chuck it for battle mage (although I'd prefer to have more of a choice in how I use battle mage, more on that later).

But we don't have to go with anecdotes, we have math to prove this. With a hand size of 6, if you draw a power of card that only has one match (such as the aggression and justice ones), that means you only have 3 possible cards that can help you; the probability here is only at roughly 34% that you (you can figure this out punching it into a hypergeometric calculator). Even if you are fully set up with, say, 8 upgrades (including 2 mystic senses) and an ally, you're looking at 62% at the highest point. And remember, only 1/3 of the time will you get the actual card here for an actual discount, the rest of the time you're just breaking even. Is playing drop kick and concussive blow really that important for your deck? I'd argue you'd benefit far more from the guaranteed advantages the MTS cycle of resources give you.

The other issue is that you have way too many non-aspect cards in the deck. 16 aspect cards is way too few. This means that you often don't have as much of a choice in how to use battle mage (especially since you have deadweight power of cards), and karmic blast and cosmic awareness become significantly less effective.

So yea, I'd probably remove the 5 power of cards, deft focus, Nick Fury, and spiritual meditation. In their place I'd probably go with something like One way or another (or skilled investigator if you prefer), Maria Hill, hall of heroes, and hard knocks.

You had pretty solid ideas in including Gamora and having a cycling-focused deck, though, for sure.

Nov 05, 2021 Scientiavore · 5

Ah almost forgot, I'd also probably swap out concussive blow for sonic rifle. I'd personally prefer the extra round of confusion over 3 damage.

Nov 05, 2021 abbojm01 · 1

@Scientiavore. We have had polar opposite experiences. I am digging this deck so much, it feels like a f1 car in its speed and efficiency. I am not sure why you wouldn’t always play Spiritual Meditation. It helps to just move forward. The funny thing is I think I played Nick Fury in almost every game I played with this deck, sometimes multiple turns in a row and never have I felt it easier to play then this deck. I use the power of cards often enough with tutor or just toss them for the power. Deft Focus is easy to play and helps you do what your going to do anyways. It also thins your deck which is a plus. To each their own though.

Nov 05, 2021 dr00 · 12019

@abbojm01 that's awesome! last night i used Quantum Magic to pull a The Power of Aggression to play Drop Kick, then pulled another Quantum Magic and had so many resources leftover i was able to play Magic Blast twice and a Karmic Blast. lol that was such a fun turn.

@Scientiavore i think to reframe your comments, this deck isn't what you're looking for. and that's fine, but to call it a 'hot mess' and try to use math to 'prove' that is just completely missing the point.

i also find it odd that you value just mathematical evaluations of decks instead of in-game experience playing it, because i feel the complete opposite. maths are a good way to start an evaluation, but the real-world in-game experience is what's important.

your suggestions of removing those cards aren't necessarily bad per se, but you must realise that you're just suggesting 'make this an entirely different deck'. it's just not the deck for you, but it's not irrefutably, intrinsically bad because of that.

Nov 05, 2021 abbojm01 · 1

I think this is one of those few decks that I look at every hand and just say hmmm what nonsense do I want to concoct today. I almost don’t even care how non traditional each hand is. It is very unlike other heroes that I think of playing 1 or 2 cards, or get an upgrade out and attack once and prepare for a chump block. I just face tank things over and over because hell why not! Lol. I tried Sonic Rifle and I just wasn’t a huge fan of it. Not bad at all just felt like it wasn’t what I needed. But that was in an upgrade deck for Adam and i disliked its tempo in general.

Nov 05, 2021 Scientiavore · 5

@dr00 Seriously? What are you talking about? I didn't use math to "prove his deck is a hot mess," that would be ridiculous. The point of the math was to point out the issue with the power of cards. Whether you like it or not, math is a highly important factor in card games. Just ask top players in pretty much any competitive card game on the planet; many of the best players in these games heavily rely on statistics and high level probability, particularly when discussing deck building (in the case of ccgs). Even though this is a coop game, many of the same mathematical principles still apply. ​

Also, as you conveniently ignored, I did play the deck (I mentioned this right in the first sentence). So I'm going from both first-hand experience AND math. That being said, if we're talking about optimization, math is a sounder course of action than making decisions for a card game based on feelings and anecdotes. And yes, given the math involved, it seems pretty clear to me that the deck would play better with the MTS resources. I'm always open to new ideas and arguments, but I've yet to see any to indicate otherwise; I think most would agree that potentially averaging 3-9+ (depending on how you look at it) thwart/damage/healing per resource is a pretty good trade.

Ironically, I could also present the question to you: how do you know the deck is fundamentally different with my suggestions if you haven't played it? Also, I never said his deck was bad (I even clarified this by pointing out the deck had some good aspects to it). The reason it felt like a downgrade to me is because it felt incomplete, like a first draft; first drafts are often messy. The ideas were there (and like I said, there were some good ideas), but the deck needs more editing. I'm also not nearly arrogant enough to claim that my suggestions are the "final draft" by any means, but from my playtesting it felt like a pretty good step in the right direction.

@abbojm01 It's always important to have fun of course. That being said, try it with my suggestions. I believe it'd run pretty much the same but better. I should point out that I did forget another change I made: I removed drop kick (since I found hard knocks to be a generally better replacement) in favor of another removal to help with minions (personally I went with relentless assault).

Nov 05, 2021 dr00 · 12019

@Scientiavore i just don't know how to respond to this lmao, but i'll try

you literally used the words 'hot mess' but i apologise for thinking that's what you thought of the deck just because you said it

i never thought you hadn't played it, just that you seemed to value maths over in-game experience. and you literally used the words 'prove' so i apologise again for misunderstanding

and again, i didn't say your suggestions were bad (i said they were not bad in fact), but that they were making it into a completely different deck. saying 'why not sonic rifle?' in a deck that's building for event tutoring clearly shows that this just isn't the deck you want. this deck ain't for you, and that's ok! hopefully it inspires you to think of something else, but your analysis is just trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. make a new deck out of it, but realise it's not at all the same deck.

Nov 05, 2021 Vortilion · 28

@dr00 Don't think it makes sense to argue with him, he just doesn't seem to understand he's trying to make a different deck out if it... I'm not a deckbuilding pro but even I see the mechanics behind this. Played this deck several times now (tested it on TTS against Klaw and Ebony Maw) and it always was extemely fun to play, villains never stood a chance. Extremely versatile, fast to set up (never played such a fast deck). Loving it.

Nov 05, 2021 Schmendrix · 1753

Just one note on One Way or Another, @InigoMontoya - it's max once per round, so sadly no spamming it. It's like the developers know what degenerate draw fiends we are.

Can't wait to try this. Running Adam Warlock in The Quantum Realm playthrough of MTS next week. We'll see how it does against Thanos. But I REALLY need a Sonic Rifle for that match up. (lol jk couldn't help myself)

Nov 05, 2021 InigoMontoya · 454

@Schmendrix Good catch! I was playing it wrong. I've learned so much with this deck and in this thread. :)

Nov 05, 2021 Balsak40 · 1

With all the "drama" on this deck, of course I tried it. I can see it's not everyone's cup of tea but I like it! Feels like there is some value on the mulligan but still feel you are just spamming that deck to get the card draw first which makes this deck hum. Once that is set up it really has answers for everything. Easily mowed klaw on expert and trying out MTS. Well done sir! I wasn't interest playing this till the voices came out on it. This deck will be in my rotation!

Nov 05, 2021 bo_ · 1

Amazing deck, mate. I'll never have included the "Power of" cards in an Adam Warlock deck with most of its aspect cards being cheap, but they work surprinsingly good! The fact that Battle Mage can be used in every phase makes that they will never be dead cards.

I'm eager to test deeply the deck to get all its interactions. ¡Thanks for this build!

Nov 05, 2021 abbojm01 · 1

@bo_ I agree, the "Power of..." cards took me piloting the deck to see how much they actually fit in the deck. They are a perfect fit because the alleviate the resource cost sink from using Quantum Magic and alternatively can be used to power his ability, resulting in up to 2 cards from Mystic Senses. They have surprisingly been the grease to the deck. Anyways, you always spend at least 1-2 resources on your turn (i.e. cards to play other cards), and those cards only give you 1 resource unless it is a specific purpose card, or a resource card.

Some people often math out decks and say that 40 cards is the only way to go, and never a card over, b/c you want to hit the most important/powerful cards. So if we assume the top 30 cards are more powerful than the last 10 cards, then the 4 "power of..." cards can just be part of that last 10 that you would rather spend for resources anyways to get your better cards out. I dont subscribe to rigid mathing of deck theory, but rather i just like to slam together some fun ideas and test out the deck to feel it all out.

One additional thing i really like is the "power of..." cards really feel like they fit in the deck, they unlock specific unique decisions, they make spending them for resources easy, and a good target for his ability. I never feel the opportunity cost of not playing them, which makes me get in that "fly by the seat of your pants", burn through the deck mentality. Let's GO!!!!

Nov 05, 2021 InigoMontoya · 454

The other thing I like about the power of aspect cards is they're an easy mark for Battle Mage if you don't have any corresponding aspect cards to play them on. It makes the Battle Mage sacrifice decision a little easier.

Nov 05, 2021 manvsdeck · 1

Let me add my voice to the chorus of people saying this deck is finely-crafted, and if you're not sure play it a few more times until you get a feel for it.

I'll admit my first thought of an Adam Warlock deck with all five double-resource aspect cards and only a few targets for each was "What? That's dumb." But seeing all the comments of support made me try the deck out, and I can confirm there's a logic to it.

Playing Summoning Spell with The Power of Leadership, hitting Nick Fury, then drawing into The Power of Aggression and Drop Kick is a sumptuous feast.

Laying down The Sorcerer Supreme on turn 1 with The Power in All of Us makes you feel like a king.

After calling Concussive Blow from discard with Quantum Magic to play with The Power of Justice in your hand and flipping down to drink from Soul World, you should probably take a bow.

The deck is unconventional, but the choices are very intentional. Great job as always, Brian-V.

Nov 05, 2021 huevobeans · 7

I think that we need to look at the power of as another copy of a double resource card in our hand. If we want to play Summoning Spell on turn 1, we now have 4 possible double resource cards instead of the usual 3, and for allies, we have 5 if we count "Welcome Aboard".

@Brian-V this one is a pet card of mine, but what about Clobber as either a 3+2 damage, or 3+1 resource event? It even gets crazier when we have Mystic Senses in play.

Nov 05, 2021 Scientiavore · 5

@dr00 I did say the deck was a hot mess, this is true. I did not use math to write some sort of proof for this (how would you even prove something is a hot mess mathematically?) The point of the math was to indicate how unlikely it was to draw the power of cards, which everyone is claiming is a great idea. This is why objective facts are important, anecdotes and feelings can be wrong and prone to all types of biases. Sure, it can be exciting when things line up, and if you're having more fun with it more power to you (and notice I never made any claims about what you can find fun or not); however, to pretend like this is the most optimal way to go about it is just wrong.

Let me put it this way, back when I played poker I met a lot of people who played purely based on their feelings, who ignored math. Guess who were the players who routinely ended up losing their money in the long run.

By the way, with my suggestions the deck ends up having the same number of events than before (including more overall draw power from events). This notion that the identity of the deck is tied to concussive blow of all things is absurd. The same goes for a lot of the other cards I suggested should be removed; let's be honest, many of these are marginal additions and are not a part of the deck's identity at all (the only card an argument can be made for in this instance would probably be Nick Fury, for which I could see keeping in favor of going to 41 cards). If anything, I'd argue with my suggestions the deck's essentially doing what it's already doing, but better, since it has even more card draw and cycling than before, while having more consistency and overall output. Deck archetypes aren't so rigidly defined that changing a few cards changes its identity entirely. In any ccg it's the norm to see players playing different variations of the same archetype.

Like I said, I'm not saying my suggestions are the ultimate fix. There certainly may be a better way to go about it. But to pretend this is some sort of flawless, perfect deck that's above criticism is ridiculous. Many of the stances I'm seeing from comments here in regards to optimization are way off the mark, and honestly just come across as poor rationalizations as to why certain cards should be kept in. Honestly, I'm a little disappointed in the aversion to feedback I'm seeing from the community. Collaboration, feedback, making adjustments, this is all a part of what ccg deckbuilding is about. The way people are coming to defend this deck, you'd think people were attacking Brian's character; hell, the fact that it can be improved doesn't even reflect poorly on his ability as a deckbuilder.

I'll conclude with this: follow your own advice. Try it out with my suggestions (and I should point out: how do you even know the cards you're defending are important if you haven't tried it without?). If you want to keep Nick Fury in there, you can add it as the 41st card.

Nov 05, 2021 Krummey · 1

You said it takes skill to pilot this deck so I took it up against Standard Rhino and I can say it worked great! Thanks for posting this!

Nov 06, 2021 Telcontar · 22

Got around to trying this deck out, with some adaptations because I lack Hulk and Drax (put in Helicarrier, Endurance, and Clobber). So much fun! You can indeed pretty much do whatever you need to each turn. There were a couple of points where I only had resource cards in hand, but that just gave me a choice of which Battle Mage effect to use, and then I drew some more useful cards with Mystic Senses to boot. The only Warlock deck so far that really works. Kudos!

Nov 06, 2021 raddoc10 · 1

Really like the deck so far! Is there a reason to not include all 3 copies of Spiritual Meditation for a 42 card deck? Seems like it would burn through the deck faster and help craft the perfect hand.

Nov 06, 2021 Telcontar · 22

@raddoc10 you're only allowed one of each non Adam Warlock card in his decks...

Nov 06, 2021 raddoc10 · 1

OMG Im an idiot. I was just remembering the equal number of aspect cards rule

Nov 07, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@abbojm01 Haha, that's crazy! I'm always constantly surprised about how the game unfolds, there's always these new combos that seem to be pulled off. Sometimes your turns last so long doing stuff you forget where you began.

Nov 07, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@abbojm01 Just by seeing what cards your posting and how you use them I can tell you really understand how to play the deck. (Spiritual Meditation, Nick Fury, Deft Focus). Thanks for trying it out :)

Nov 07, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@abbojm01 I agree with you 100%. (Sonic Rifle doesn't really fit the deck because it's not an event. You want to be able to grab events always because they are either a resource, a specific Battle Mage color you want, matching with Power of, your choice of event to fit whatever you need at the moment.)

Nov 07, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@Schmendrix I beat Thanos on expert yesterday. You can't do your usual stun/confuse lock shenanigans, that's correct, but I just chump blocked with all the allies and was fine. I can imagine you'll find the same, let me know how it goes.

Nov 07, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@Balsak40 Glad you enjoyed it. I would think with all the you'd be able to easily discard the Klaw upgrades. That's an overlooked strength of the deck. You really decide what cards you want to use to discard an upgrade, you aren't forced to discard something you need.

Nov 07, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@bo_ Exactly, I would never put them in there if it wasn't for Battle Mage, Quantum Magic, and tutoring/card draw. It just plays different than any other deck so can be hard to wrap your head around it at first. :)

Nov 07, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@manvsdeck There's so many combos, some of the stuff people are describing hasn't even happened to me yet through all my games. I do love the confuse, Cosmic Ward, flip and heal through Soul World. There's really not too much that can go wrong on the villain turn, which is what I mean by you "Control" the villain in my write up. Appreciate the comment, thanks :)

Nov 07, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@huevobeans I just don't know what you'd replace, that's the only problem. And sometimes with all the whacky turns, I'm not sure if Clobber would always be my first card played. Often I don't even know what's going to happen in my turn until I start tutoring/drawing/Battle Mage into more cards. I think it's definitely a card to consider though.

Nov 07, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@Krummey You're welcome! I think once you get the idea it's not so hard. Just takes practice like anything else. Once you get a game or two under your belt you start to see how it just plays differently.

Nov 07, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@Telcontar Thank you! Glad you're enjoying it.

Nov 07, 2021 Saan · 1371

@ScientiavoreOkay, I went ahead and made the changes you discussed and played a few games.

The deck felt a lot more ponderous and slower, with overall less powerful turns. I had to rely on hoping I had an answer rather than just being able to find one. I did kinda like Sonic Rifle for the multiple confuses, but not being able to grab it with Voodoo or Kaluu made me sad, and I always felt kinda poor if I played it. Maria was fine, but ended up getting in the way of Summoning Spell hitting a good target. Hall of Heroes ended up feeling kinda like a dud, and I never wanted to take the time to play it. Same with Hard Knocks. It felt like an expensive option to do something I didn't care about at all. One Way or Another is solid, but that's already been discussed.

Anyhow, I ended up missing the double resources a lot. It was a lot harder being able to play some of the more expensive cards, since I now had less options of what to tutor for, seeing as I no longer had the double resource cards to help guide my turns. The entire deck is set up to take massive advantage of them, and removing them took a lot of the teeth out of the deck.

I agree with your premise that discussion on card choices is important, and I've been glad to see some good discussion of this by folks like @InigoMontoya, @abbojm01, and @SpiderPK.

Nov 08, 2021 Scientiavore · 5

@Saan

Some valid points. I think after brushing up on Adam Warlock a bit more again my perspective has changed a bit. I agree with some of your assessments on my suggestions (particularly with hall of heroes). After brushing up on the hero, though, I think the general approach here to Adam Warlock (both Brian's and the one I was going for with corrections) was the wrong way to go. The main problem with the approach we were going for (and the main initial problem with the deck) is that it does nothing to address the hero's weaknesses, and doesn't do much to highlight his strengths.

Adam Warlock's main issue is that he has one of the weakest early games. He has subpar base stats and an ability that's inherently subpar compared to other heroes (without setup).

On the flipside, he has some major strengths. Besides the ability to draw upon nearly the entire cardpool to build his deck while having access to the strong mystic cards, (albeit with a one card limit), he has some strong hero cards as well: he can full heal with soul world, has strong setup cards with mystic senses and karmic staff, cosmic ward is a good encounter control card, quantum magic is a great utility card, pip the troll is a great chump blocker, and karmic blast and cosmic awareness are efficient at what they do (assuming you have enough aspect cards in the deck).

The deck put together here seems not to take a lot of this into account. It's short on early game impact and removal, instead adding cards like tackle, drop kick, and concussive blow (which seem unnecessary and like win more cards in this instance). Again, this is a hero with pip, soul world, shield spell while preferring to be in hero mode... this isn't a hero that's as concerned with villain activations as others. He adds a very large amount of basic cards and relatively few aspect cards, which goes against a lot of what Adam Warlock excels at and how his kit functions.

Honestly I'm kind of puzzled as to how people are claiming this deck is great. I played moderately difficult scenarios on expert (scenarios that usually wouldn't give me much trouble), and not gonna lie I struggled a lot more than usual. This deck does not seem to be built to handle harder difficulties where the villain already has side schemes and minions on the board while developing quickly. I can't help but feel a lot of people are either playing easier stuff, or are playing in larger groups where the other players are helping them clear stuff early on to make things more manageable; in these instances, of course the deck would feel powerful (although I'd argue it really doesn't matter all that much what type of Adam Warlock deck you're playing at that point, he's pretty much always going to feel strong once set up). Either that, or they're remembering that one time they had an insane turn, while ignoring all the other times things just kind of fizzled out, or when there weren't really many options.

So putting this all-together, this is what I've been playing around with lately: marvelcdb.com

I'm still making adjustments, but this already feels way better. To help his early game, I made sure to include some of the most efficient damage and thwarting cards I could. I made sure summoning spell would always be efficient in whatever it grabbed (sans pip of course); even quantum magic, you'd at least break even, while having a good chance of grabbing something explosive. You still have a lot of card discarding and cycling (like the deck posted here) to quickly cycle through his deck. I also elected to go with a higher card count (while lowering the number of basics) to make sure karmic blast and cosmic awareness have a bigger impact. There's a lot of other little things here and there as well (too many to go over briefly). Anyway, hope I was able to better explain my position this time around; if not, I'd be happy to clarify.

Nov 08, 2021 dr00 · 12019

@Scientiavore i'm honestly baffled how you (still) won't let this go. your deck is putting more emphasis on Karmic Blast and Cosmic Awareness while @Brian-V's is putting more emphasis on Battle Mage and Mystic Senses. as shocking as it may seem, there's a world in which both decks be good for their own reasons, and that they definitely need to be piloted differently to get the most out of them. i'm glad you found something that works for you, but hopefully someday you'll understand that other people have their own preferences lol

Nov 08, 2021 Scientiavore · 5

@dr00 So do you enjoy trying to shut down discussion or something? Yea, I think the deck doesn't work, so I'm sharing my thoughts on the matter. So what? Why does that bother you? I'm sorry, did I miss something? Are you Brian's sentinel or something, always on the lookout in case someone has the AUDACITY to potentially imply his deck, his Magnum Opus, could be flawed? Give me a break.

The reason I responded was because Saan responded to what I wrote, and I thought he made some good points. I also had a new perspective on the matter to share (not just on the deck, but the hero as a whole). Believe it or not, when talking about strategy, a discussion between players (of any game) can include talking about both what does and doesn't work, the good and the bad. And people generally like talking about the intricacies of their hobbies. I know this may come as a surprise to you. Hopefully some day you'll understand.

Nov 08, 2021 Vortilion · 28

@Scientiavore „[…] that it does nothing to address the hero's weaknesses, and doesn't do much to highlight his strengths.

Adam Warlock's main issue is that he has one of the weakest early games“

I disagree. This deck is so fast with setup, even faster than any other Adam Warlock Deck I tested. So it does something to adress his weakness. Why say otherwise?

Nov 08, 2021 dr00 · 12019

@Scientiavore so 'this deck is garbage and people who like it are delusional' is perfectly reasonable discourse but 'hey, people can have different opinions' is shutting down discussion? there is absolutely no saving you lmao.

Nov 08, 2021 Schmendrix · 1753

Yeah, the fundamental issue is positioning a subjective perspective ("I don't like playing the way this deck is asking me to play") as an objective observation ("the deck doesn't work"). I think dr00 is simply pointing this out.

Nov 08, 2021 Alexin · 131

Thank you for putting so much thought and talent into this wonderful deck @Brian-V. I am already setting up a version of it, that builds on most of your work but has a few changes of my liking, that I will discuss with you soon enough. In the meantime, a couple questions.

You say that core of the deck is to bring tinto play both copies of Mystic Senses as quick as possible, and that you will use tutor cards for it. But tutor allies such as Gamora, Kaluu or Brother Voodoo look for events only, while Mystic Senses is an upgrade. I fail to see how tutoring events can help to bring an upgrade into your hands, taking into account that with your tutor allies, you pick and event out of five draws and the reshuffle deck.

Only way I think of is through sheer drawing and discarding, in the hope of getting Mystic Senses in your hands or discard pile, and pick it up with Quantum Magic in the latter. If that is the trick, I supposse the useful cards for getting quick to your Mystic Senses senses are those that draw and discard, such as Cosmic Awareness, Karmic Blast, Zone of Silence or Shield Spell, rather than event-tutoring allies. Care to explain? Thanks and grats again, master ;)

Nov 08, 2021 abbojm01 · 1

@Alexin Good question. Those allies are dual purpose, first they draw cards, yes events as you said, but that is a card draw that thins your deck, so when you draw at phase end, you are more likely to hit those cards you need rather than draw events. Additionally, they draw events, events that by design discard cards, so you in fact can use those events immediately to discard 4 -5 cards, and then use Quantum Magic to pull in Mystic Senses. Also, Summoning Spell can discard a lot of cads and get you to mystic senses pretty easily, or Soul World if you are near deck end.

Nov 08, 2021 abbojm01 · 1

@Alexin Also, once you have 1 or 2 Mystic Senses you have an additional decision to make, do I use his power to draw cards first, or an event to discard cards, then draw/use Quantum Magic. Or, do I use and ally to dig for an event that I need, to then discard, to then use Quantum Magic. etc, etc. The order of decisions can matter quite a deal in some cases.

Nov 08, 2021 Scientiavore · 5

@Vortilion Yea I can see that, that's a valid point. It's definitely worth pointing out how the more consistent set-up via card cycling, tutoring, and discard retrieval is one of the good aspects of the deck (although to be fair I've pointed this out a few times myself). That being said, this deck also creates some new issues for the early game.

The first thing is that you're less likely to get a useful battlemage ability. Generally, the leadership ability is pretty bad, so in most decks you want to avoid that. This deck also doesn't have good targets for the protection ability besides gamora, so if you don't have her on the board it's ineffective in this deck. In most instances that leaves you with only aggression and justice, for which there are only 4 cards each. Having fewer aspect cards in general is detrimental for this.

The other issue I already talked about: the lack of good removal. This effectively lowers the output in the areas that matter for stabilizing the board in Adam Warlock's favor. This also means that, comparatively, this deck needs more setup to make up the difference in output.

These two issues combined mean that, comparatively, this deck needs more setup to make up the difference in output. All in all, I'd argue this creates a net negative in regards to the early game, even with faster setup.

@dr00 Oh please, don't give me that. Have you already forgotten your last comment? Saying things like, "I'm baffled you still wont let this go" while consistently disregarding my points, twisting what I've said (and you've done both of these consistently in the comments), and dismissively concluding with "hopefully someday you'll understand that other people have their own preferences..." yea I'd say you're trying to shut down discussion.

Also, stating "so 'this deck is garbage and people who like it are delusional' is perfectly reasonable discourse" is so unbelievably derivative and banal. Yea guy, that's what's going on here, I brought nothing more to the table other than, "THIS DECK BAD." Ironically, for someone who's supposedly saying 'hey, people can have different opinions', you seem to have major issues with anything that shows a hint of dissent.

@Schmendrix I agree there's a difference. Clearly I believe the latter of course, but where's the issue in that? I think the playstyle is fine, there's just a better way to go about it (with better card selection and the like). Don't let dr00 fool you, this isn't an issue of "different decks" and "different playstyles." The guy is full of crap, and has consistently been misrepresenting my points.

Nov 08, 2021 Schmendrix · 1753

@Scientiavore Are you going to tell me my favorite flavor of ice cream should be chocolate through pure reasoning? That's the issue.

Nov 08, 2021 abbojm01 · 1

@Scientiavore I actually found that the green card ability has been used a ton in my games, but admittedly I play multiplayer or two-handed solo. I can imagine this is completely different if played true solo, but even in that case Gamora is an extremely high return making it worth it for her alone. 1 card equating to 2 damage and 1 event (likely). With the setup it just gets better, but it has uses pretty much straight away (in the first deck cycle)

It can help allies with good heroes especially if they can get one more massive hit out of being healed. Planning makes it have many uses. The attack and thwart are just good when needed in a pinch to help your teamate with maybe a cool justice card that requires them to finish the threat, and you just take of the top layer, or to just squeak out that last damage on a enemy that has higher HP.

The battle mage ability is just its flexibility to be useful in a lot of situations, and grease difficult situations to be more manageable. I dont think his ability is ever going to be considered the main focus of this deck, it is just the lever that allows massive hand turns, and interesting decisions. He essentially had 4 -8 damage and 3 - 7 Thwart cards that can take care of most things, he can take massive hits will chuckling if he wants and let his minions just ping away as much as needed, or take a hit if he so chooses. Cosmic Ward allows you to be even less concerned with taking hits. This is all possible because of the lightning speed that you go through your deck. I don't think I have ever been less concerned with drawing that extra encounter card.

Nov 08, 2021 Scientiavore · 5

@Schmendrix What are you going on about? No seriously, where exactly am I arguing something along those lines?

The problem with your initial statement is that the premise is flawed. You're assuming, "I don't like playing the way this deck is asking me to play," when there's nothing to indicate this is remotely true. I've never made any claims along the lines of playstyle in regards to preference, enjoyment, whatever. These are all assumptions on Dr00's part, and, apparently, now your part. It seems to me that your logic is that if someone voices issues with the deck, then it HAS to be a problem with the player in some way regardless of what arguments they are presenting. That's a load of crap. What a convenient way to avoid engaging with any form of dissent.

@abbojm01

Yea with more players you will definitely be more likely to see use out of the protection ability. My perspective does come from 1-2 handed. If you're playing solo (and to be fair, this deck is labeled as a solo deck), the only good use is Gamora. She's definitely a great target for it, for sure though. Imo the protection ability is generally his best use of battle mage as long as you have good targets (and it seems we're in agreement here), so ideally you'd want to definitely make sure you can make good use of it. The thing is, if you only have the one ally (Gamora), you're bound to have many situations come up where you have no good targets (and of course in a deck with a lot of chump blockers there are situations where you wont have any targets); you wont always have Gamora in play after all.

I think we're also in agreement with his durability and inherent ability to manage villain activations. This is why I've pointed out that cards like concussive blow, tackle, and drop kick aren't needed, and why I'd drop them in favor of having some efficient removal. In my experience, Adam Warlock generally doesn't lose from villain activations, it generally occurs from letting the villain's board get out of control.

The reason I pointed out battle mage was due to the fact that this deck's overall output is made even lower due to the fact that it more infrequently makes good use out of his battle mage ability. If you only have 1 mystic senses out, tossing a card just to activate battle mage is basically the equivalent of cycling a card, while with 2 out you're basically only gaining a total of 1 card from 2 upgrades. Frequently missing out on the equivalent of 2 damage/thwart a turn adds up and is rather substantial (particularly earlier on when the board state is more in flux), mystic senses operates under the assumption that you're actually getting good use out of battle mage in order to be efficient.

It's also worth pointing out that, in this deck, karmic blast and cosmic awareness are severely impacted by the low number of aspect cards. While 8 damage and 7 thwart are the ceiling, the average in this deck is far closer to the floor than what it could be. The output from many of his allies tends to be on the low side as well (since they're mostly chump blockers, many with relatively low values). All of this to point out that these cards don't really help all that much with the output problem. Having some 2/3 thwart/damage per resource cards (as well as a few more aspect cards proportional to the rest of the deck) goes a long way in helping things out.

Nov 08, 2021 abbojm01 · 1

@Scientiavore So, i cannot speak for true solo. I have never played the game that way. I played MTS on expert, and a couple multiplayer normal games. So, my experience is only at 2 or more decks being played. I have played Adam as a vultron, and a cheap upgrade deck, and I found with the vultron one especially that I needed to rely on green more than other colors, and I didn't like that as much (I don't much prefer vultron decks anyways).

One thing that I found out was I tend to use all the card abilities, save leadership for his power. Mainly because the leadership ones really hit the pedal to the metal most of the time. Summoning Spell and "Welcome Aboard". So, maybe the Allys are more about digging down in the deck as your accelerate and less so about big hits, but that is ok, I felt more flexibility to use Aggression/Justice cards for Adam's power as a result, rather than need Green to use allys longer. I could use them longer, it just wasn't necessary for the deck.

I am not saying any one card is the "best" or only card to fit that slot, only that I find the deck just has a nice flow. I do like Concussive Blow and Drop Kick for the same reasons I like this Adam deck, versatility. I like the ability to pull them from the discard in the case there is a situation that needs it.. such as dipping down to use soul ward, i might concussive blow then go down, the Drop Kick is nice for 2 reasons, i often would look to use it to keep my teammate in hero mode when they are first player, and it is nice to get a card draw as a result. I have considered Into the Fray and Stealth Strike just to have a dual purpose card, but i just decided the other because I like to help my teammates do their thing more.

Nov 09, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@abbojm01 You really understand how this deck was designed and how it's played. I would answer the questions people have, but you are answering them exactly how I would. You clearly understand why I have included certain cards, and your opinions on Summoning Spell and "Welcome Aboard" are spot on. I don't use blue to pump up Adam's stats in this deck, so I almost never use these cards for Battle Mage.

One note on damage is that I do find once I have everything set up I'm doing a ton of damage and usually finish off the villain in one to two turns from full health on the Stage III (solo). That's because the deck can kind of turn on a switch and do what you want, in this case being all damage. And exactly right, allies aren't supposed to do damage in this deck, I use them for blocking and thwarting/pinging.

And it's such cost-efficient damage with the cost-saving cards and the card draw. I'm doing at least 3+ events (w/ tutors, draws, recursion, and Battle Mage) in a turn. At that point I also do full effect for Magic Attack and Karmic Blast discarding max cards. Even if you got at the minimum Karmic Blast x2 and a Magic Attack that's 15 damage even if you said you only turned 1 aspect card out of 5 discarded cards -- so a very low estimate that doesn't include allies and Battle Mage and recurring. Not to mention you may be stunning throughout so the villain can't really even fight back. I just do not find that I'm not doing a ton of damage when I want to with the deck.

One thing I thought about when I looked at Adam's "discarding for effect events" in his kit is even if you went full aspect cards, you're still going to get diminishing returns with Karmic Blast and Cosmic Awareness. That's because the more you draw, the less likely you are to draw a different aspect card, and that's not even taking into account you'll always have hero cards. I would suspect the graph would look somewhat like a "y = log(x)" graph.

Nov 09, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@Schmendrix Both Kant and Spock have literally proven that vanilla is the best ice cream. So, yeah.

Nov 10, 2021 Smoothjedi · 1

I have read through the discussion on this and figured I'd throw in my two cents. @Scientiavore I think it's pretty obvious you're not understanding why your suggestions are being dismissed. Since @Brian-V and @Schmendrix are throwing around ice cream references, imagine you were served a bowl of Rocky Road, and your feedback was it was a hot (cold?) mess; we should try Neapolitan instead. Now I think a lot of people would agree that Neapolitan is a good flavor, but that suggestion isn't really relevant to solving why you didn't like Rocky Road.

Similarly, if you hopped on the comment thread for @dr00's StarLord Leadership deck and said you didn't like it, he should try aggression instead, that again isn't really helpful feedback to improving the original.

Back to this discussion, I looked at your suggested deck. It's a hefty forty nine card ally swarm deck; the Neapolitan to this lean, forty card, event tutoring deck's Rocky Road. They're two different ideas based on different mechanics, and although I'm sure yours works fine, pushing that here doesn't help fix any potential issues with this one.

Nov 10, 2021 Nhojm · 1

Just out of curiosity, if you were fighting a Stalwart villain like Thanos, what would you do with Concussive Blow and Drop Kick?

Nov 10, 2021 abbojm01 · 1

@Nhojm. Can’t speak for @Brian-V But I would simply use them either for Adam’s ability, namely to draw 1-2 cards with his Mystic Senses. You could use Concussive Blow for Adam’s ability to specifically help a hero turn down for a turn. Or use Drop Kick as a resource to pay for a ally. An ally is normally good enough to block the villain even though he still activates. The decks speed and versatility though allow you to get ally’s out, take a hit or two in the face (go ahead and use his 2 defense to soften the blows) and his cape to ready up and ping that tough status, and turn down to heal up full.

Nov 10, 2021 Smoothjedi · 1

@Nhojm Personally I'd drop them rather than leave potentially dead cards in my deck. You could always use them for big minions, but I think more effective cards could be subbed in for those circumstances. Just replace them with attack events for similar deck mechanics. My first guess for Concussive Blow would be Stealth Strike. There are a lot of good attacks in Aggression, so I guess I'd just tailor that to what I'm going up against.

Nov 10, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@Nhojm @Smoothjedi I personally don't like to change my decks in-between scenarios, that's total preference. The nice thing about this deck is you can just use aspect cards for Battle Mage. In fact, a lot of times I tutor for a specific aspect I want for my BM ability. Red, Yellow, and Green I use the most. I handle Thanos on Expert without a problem with this deck. Also, you're still getting the damage from these cards. Even with Drop Kick, 4-damage for 3 and draw card isn't bad at all. Okay, I'm going to go eat some Neapolitan ice cream now!

Nov 10, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

Just in case anyone could benefit to see a playthrough (a lot of people have asked me for one):

@KennedyHawk provides us with a masterful playthrough of this deck on his Marvel Champions Monthly - Workout Wednesday podcast (That was a mouthful). Just dropped today! Link at the top of the writeup!

Nov 10, 2021 Mammonite · 1

I was skeptical of this deck so I tested it against expert Thanos one-handed solo. I figured Stalwart would shut it down and confirm my suspicions that it has too many resources.

Beat him first try with 4 charges on Soul World. This is easily the most powerful deck I've ever played. In retrospect the game was decided by the end of turn two when I had gone through nearly the entirety of my deck, had both copies of mystic senses, and two allies out despite using one to block on turn one.

It wasn't even a fluke. I had numerous turns where the hand I started the round with looked nothing like what I ended up playing. This deck sets up fast, pretty much never needs to go to alter-ego, and doesn't even need to stun or confuse the villain to succeed. Looking forward to trying it against someone who isn't Stalwart.

I'd probably like to fit in One Way or Another and an Energy Spear for Gamora since she attacks nearly every round.

Nov 10, 2021 Truffaz · 1

@Brian-V So, i played all of your deck, because they're often really good, and at least make me learn something. But after 11 games with your deck, and seeing @KennedyHawk playing your deck, i really don't like the Power off, they are so often dead they could be anything else. And i played a lot of different villain, instead of spamming Thanos, but i play different villain to play your deck (so status are better, i'm not playing Drop kick because of Stalwart and Expert 2, i generaly like Tackle and sometimes play Concusive Blow). I don't want to have a card that does nothing expect for Battlemage, when i could have an option instead and have a choice for my Battlemage activation. I also don't like that much neutral card, but playing your deck make me realize Gamora is maybe better than Spiritual Meditation if i want to play less neutral than you. They're no difference is setup time if you remove the Power of, if i'm not mistaken ? I like what Summoning spell, i didn't ever tried it before, like Gamora, but at the moment, it's a card i would not pass on.

Nov 10, 2021 Truffaz · 1

And, i won all of those games, so i'm not saying the deck is bad, because that seems to be something that matter. I just didn't have as much option to do it as with another deck (and the difference is just the power off aspect stuff)

Nov 10, 2021 Scientiavore · 5

@abbojm01 Funny enough, I mentioned the exact same thing you're saying (that perhaps some players were playing with larger player counts) and got accused of calling other players "delusional."

Anyway, back to some of the topics at hand. I'd argue using leadership for battlemage would normally be pretty bad in most Adam Warlock decks regardless of how good the leadership cards were. It's usually his weakest option (short of just chucking a non-aspect card).

I think I need to clarify my point in regards to battle mage. My main issue is I want to avoid bad uses (particularly since this deck places a lot of value on mystic senses). Worst case scenario would be not having an aspect card at all, but it would also be equally bad to have a protection card without an ally, while also being pretty bad to be forced to use a leadership card or protection card with a low damage/thwart ally. This happens a lot in this deck (if you're interested I could provide some math on this). Considering the importance this deck places on mystic senses and battle mage, this is a pretty big problem.

Funny enough, I think cards like drop kick and concussive blow are better in single player than multiplayer. The villain can only be stunned/confused once after all. While with other heroes these cards can definitely be great, I don't think they do much to help Adam Warlock win. As I mentioned previously, he already has tons of ways to negate villain activations, and his main problem is the early game; once he's all set up he's already in a powerful position, the objective is to get there in one piece while ensuring the villain doesn't have an overwhelming board presence (thus helping to avoid how this deck ends up losing).

I think for the interest of clarity, I should summarize what changes I'd make for this deck specifically. I would probably start with something like this: marvelcdb.com

This deck enhances what it's trying to do (with even more card drawing, cycling, and discarding), adds more aspect cards (to make it more likely battle mage will be used effectively), and shores up the early game weakness by adding more side scheme and minion removal. Not saying it's perfect by any means, but I'd argue it's certainly an improvement and a step in the right direction.

@Smoothjedi

Nah, it's more like Brian presented some ice with milk poured over it, and said, "hey try this rocky road ice cream." I then said, "you've got the ingredients, but you're missing some steps." Then Dr00 came in and said, "Well, your problem is that you just don't like rocky road, this ice cream is great as is" After some back and forth, in the interest of discussion I eventually explained how one goes about making some ice cream, while exclaiming, "Oh! I have some ice cream in the fridge btw, let me show you to illustrate what I'm talking about, " while pulling out some neopolitan I made before (which is no different than what other commenters have done here). Then Schmendrix came in to claim, "ah, of course, the problem is personal preference after all." Brian then comes in to make a snarky joke about how I'm trying to use logic to prove a flavor of ice cream is the best. Then you come in, as an average, decent human being who doesn't know much about ice cream but is assuming everyone is approaching this in good faith to help clarify why I'm being misunderstood.

I know exactly what's going on. Anyway, if you're interested in a general idea of how this specific deck can be improved, look no further than my response to abbojm01 in this comment. Everything in this decklist has been discussed at length in my previous comments, there's really nothing new there (as much as some would have you believe). I would love it to be explained to me just how exactly this deck is such a wildly different archetype than what's posted here (it's not, it's essentially the same general strategy and approach, even incorporating suggestions here that were supposedly well received).

I also believe it's worth mentioning that if someone WERE to come in and say, "The general ideas behind this deck (or any deck for that matter) doesn't work," that can also be completely valid criticism as well (assuming they adequately supported these positions of course). Nothing should be taken for granted.

@Brian-V Are the snarky jokes and crappy insinuations necessary? Is this how you react to someone taking the time to provide feedback? Lame.

Nov 10, 2021 Truffaz · 1

@Scientiavore I played poker for a living for 10 years, a lot of what you say resonate with me, especially considering where poker is now

Nov 10, 2021 Alexin · 131

So here is my list of this wonderful deck, with a few changes of my liking:

marvelcdb.com

I remove all the Power of cards, I know they are efficient but in my opinion they also narrow down your playing. Having only 4 events per aspect, I prefer to have 4 events that potentially have an effect of their own rather than three. I also include Clobber and Impede that I think work really good with this deck, I can play them first for their effect and get back to my hand and then use them for battle magic. I stick with White Tiger instead of Gamora (very controversial, I know) and I include also Hard Knocks. I prefer this attack over Drop Kick because I tend to play with my friends in difficulties where villains have stalwart, so status-causing cards are not really that useful. Final addition is Booster Boots over the power of grey card. I am happy with my first test games, but still have many challenges pending, will see

Nov 10, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@Alexin I go into great detail about why I put the "Power of" cards in the write-up -- (Quantum Magic efficiency, with so much discarding you know what's in almost your entire deck, you can manipulate your hand to draw what you want, etc.). Many people have commented and said it works exactly how intended for them as well. @KennedyHawkalso shows how they are used perfectly in the playthrough! But this is a game about having fun, and there is no "right" way to play. Go with what you're comfortable with! Thanks for sharing your list. :)

Nov 11, 2021 LordVader13 · 1

@Scientiavore It's funny that you talk about how great your ideas are, but you haven't published any decks for us to witness your greatness.

You must be a pretty boring player to play with if all you do is Math your way through this game. There is a lot more to games like this then just efficiency. I care more about theme and having fun. If the deck is good, then that's just an added bonus. AND THIS DECK IS GOOD!

Nov 11, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@Alexin Re-read my reply to you and just wanted to make sure it didn't come off dismissive since we can't edit them. Let me know how it goes with your deck testing and I do appreciate the praise! (One quick note with White Tiger is that her ability won't work with Summoning Spell since it's only "play from your hand". Otherwise I would have definitely considered her.)

Nov 11, 2021 Maialideth · 1

@Brian-V I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say "tutor", could you please elaborate?

Nov 11, 2021 Vortilion · 28

@Maialideth I did explain it a few comments above. ;)

Nov 11, 2021 Maialideth · 1

@Vortilion Cheers mate (heck, I even have a Demonic Tutor card from when I used to play Magic back in the '90s :D ).

Nov 11, 2021 Vortilion · 28

@Maialideth I loved to play Black! ;)

Nov 11, 2021 Maialideth · 1

@Vortilion Me too ;)

Nov 11, 2021 Alexin · 131

@Brian-V Thanks so much for pointing out the flaw with White Tiger, I didn´t notice it at first. It is a problem indeed, and it forces me to think twice about Summoning Spell if White Tiger is not in play, hand or discard pile.

I am enjoying so much to play your deck (my list, but 95% your deck) and impressed by the throught you´ve put into it. Just defeated Nebula in Expert II quite smoothly. Regarding my list under testing, very unhappy with Relentless Assault, I find that have so many ways to deal with minions that always ends up being battlemaged. Still considering about Clear the Area and Hard Knocks, and happy enough with Clobber, Impede and Booster Boots. Will continue testing harder opponents

Nov 12, 2021 carolina_bryan · 1

I'm interested in a solo two-handed playthrough of MTS with the heroes from that box. Do you think this deck and your posted Aggression Spectrum "play nicely" together? Would you make any specific changes to either deck for multiplayer?

Nov 12, 2021 Schmendrix · 1753

@carolina_bryan I'll let @Brian-V speak to the Aggression Spectrum deck. I will say that for MTS scenario 3, I think a couple of small changes to this deck are warranted if you don't mind changing decks between scenarios. Specifically, swapping Drop Kick and Concussive Blow for other cards.

Nov 12, 2021 Scientiavore · 5

@Truffaz Do you still play? A lot of online sites stopped servicing my area due to black friday and the legislation that followed (I primarily played online). I personally moved on to ccgs in my spare time. Sometimes I do miss it, but online play has changed a lot from what I can tell. How is it nowadays (if you still play)? I'd imagine a lot of the online gameplay is even more dependent on software than before.

@LordVader13 Cool story bro. What does any of this have to do with anything I've been saying?

What I find funny is how a lot of people want to avoid acknowledging any of the points I'm making (props to the people who were willing to engage and try things out). We've got people like you who'd rather try to attack me (over the most banal stuff might I add), or people like @Brian-V and co who'd rather make it out as just a matter of "preference." Apparently, people who regularly tweak and update to new versions of their decks (up to V3 in some cases), and who "rigorously test" their decks are no longer concerned over effectiveness. I also find it funny how preference somehow doesn't come into play when they feel confident in correcting other peoples decks or unsupported comments.

This whole affair, besides being disingenuous, just smells like one huge copout. Honestly, I lost a lot of respect for a lot of people here. I'm starting to see the pattern though, if a comment's not glowing with praise it seems they're not interested in engaging whatsoever; it seems they're not interested in new ideas, only in boosting their own ego (over decklists in a coop game of all things, kind of sad honestly).

Nov 12, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@carolina_bryan First off, you spelled your name wrong ;) I agree with @Schmendrix as far as the answers to your question. Rob’s Gaming Table is doing a casual player’s run through MTS if you’re interested. The link is on my Spectrum deck. I’ve played vs Thanos and I didn’t really have a problem (I don’t like to change out cards in campaign mode as a personal preference).

Nov 12, 2021 abbojm01 · 1

@Scientiavore. I think the important things to remember is this a cooperative game and we are all part of a great community. I think we can try to do our best to be supportive of others opinions and realize opinions are just that and it is ok to disagree. Being a cooperative game it isn’t really a matter of meta / or the best card/deck. So there likely isn’t a way to measure the best decks that won competitions, and that is ok.

I have tried the cards you have mentioned and played plenty of games to understand that this play style deck supports fits my style and for that reason I find it fun and I thinks it “works”. It just works for me and maybe others will share that. Not all of course.

We can disagree and be supportive. I can’t tell you to not lose respect for people but it is just a game and we are just here to share our joy about playing it. Focusing on that helps the community in my opinion. There is no right answer to decks.

Nov 13, 2021 Alexin · 131

@Brian-V I continue with my playtesting, now adding to my scores The Hood and Norman Orborn in Expert II, and the Kang in Expert.

One suggestion I come up with is to include One Way or Another, and remove Concussive Blow. Reason is that I find that confuse villain is way less needed than stun. You spend most of time on hero form, which keeps plan under control, and now and then you can throw Zone of Silence, Cosmic Awareness, thwart with your allies or confuse with "Think Fast!" if you want to flip to heal with Soul World. On the other hand, One Way or Another is an excellent tool in this deck. It is a zero cost card that allows you to search encounter deck for the least harmful secondary plan in exchange of drawing three cards. Taking into account deck´s speed, you should have quick access to it which certainly adds value for playing early. It is an event that can be tutored. I know that doing this replacement would put The Power of Justice in a spike, so I would also replace this one with another justice event. Thanks to all the previous posters mentioning the card; I find it essential

Nov 13, 2021 raddoc10 · 1

This is the only deck I’ve ever beaten Ronan with on my first attempt, and I was unlucky with both Mystic Senses in the last 5 cards of my deck! Shield Spell saved me twice from his Fanaticism boosted attacks

Nov 13, 2021 Truffaz · 1

@ScientiavoreI stop playing professionaly 4 years ago, but still played like 2 month per year to keep up, not at the same stake tough. I played a lot last year when i couldn't work, but i think i'm good for a long time : I still love the game, but i don't have the time now to play at a level that i find engaging. I wouldn't say the game is more software based than before, but the time you spend studying is even more important : everybody is decent past small stake, and the higher you play, the more people are trying to have a balanced strategy. So solver are usefull if you want to go quicker, but you will still need 100s of hour thinking about what playing a good strategy means (and more if you want to not play the solver one but build your own). I actually played ccg competitively before poker, won europeans championships in multiples games, but not a lot of ccg interest me right now (besides doing like 15-30 draft per set in magic)

Nov 13, 2021 Scientiavore · 5

@abbojm01 I'm afraid I'm not the one that needs to be told this. I have no problem with different opinions or disagreements. Although I don't believe the notion that there isn't a way to measure a deck's effectiveness (there are all sorts of ways, from win rates, math, and all types of analysis), I agree that ultimately the most important thing is to have fun. I would agree with you even if we were talking about any of the competitive ccgs I've competed in. That is not the issue here in any shape or form, however.

You misunderstand: I didn't lose respect for people over something as trivial as a difference of opinion (in a cooperative ccg no less, this is as trivial as it gets). That would first require an actual opinion, which, to my knowledge, has yet to be presented. There has been no actual engagement in that regards. No, the reason I lost respect for people is due to their shitty behavior and the glimpses I've been getting into their character. Last I checked those are pretty good reasons. There's nothing "supportive" about a lot of what I've been seeing, and btw I'm not even the first one that's called someone out here in that regards.

I don't lose respect for people over a difference of opinion in a ccg, never have and never will. That would be ridiculous.

@Truffaz That's good to hear. I was wondering once I started reading about how AI was successfully created that consistently defeats professionals in both heads up and shorthanded poker, but I suppose this type of AI probably uses supercomputers and is generally inaccessible. Solver wasn't really a thing when I stopped, but even back then there was already all types of software for all types of different things. Man, it's crazy how much the game has changed in such a short time frame due to technology (amongst other reasons). It is kind of cool though.

Funny enough I kind of feel the same way about ccgs atm too. The problem for me is kind of a combination of factors. A lot of them feel pretty similar, so in that regards there's nothing new or refreshing in terms of gameplay. New expansions can be interesting for a while, but generally not for long since it all ultimately boils down to the same when all is said and done. After a while it often just feels like, "oh, been there, done that."

Nov 13, 2021 huevobeans · 7

@Scientiavore @Truffaz Please, stop using this comment section to talk about unrelated topics. You're clogging the actual discussion.

@Brian-V I don't have GMW, is Helicarrier a good enough replacement to Deft Focus, or is it better for me to just try to use the extra slot to cover for some other area?

Nov 13, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@huevobeans Yeah, that's not a bad idea, you'd have another target for The Power in All of Us. Or you could do another Basic ally with an "enter play" effect for Summoning Spell -- maybe Mockingbird? Another option is a good Basic event (there aren't many), but maybe Assess the Situation? That way you're drawing more cards, which is what you're trying to do. I'd probably go with that to be honest -- Assess the Situation. It fits the theme of the deck the best probably, but total personal preference.

Nov 13, 2021 toliveischrist77 · 1

Thank you for sharing this. I think it’s amazing. I’ve had soooo much fun with it. I’ve even used it to beat some villains on expert. Normally I just like to play on standard but this was crushing everyone so I had the confidence to increase the difficulty and it’s still crushing. But even better than winning, it’s just such a joy to play. Every turn is a super fun puzzle to solve because this deck gives you so many options on your turn. Brilliant stuff.

Nov 13, 2021 Smoothjedi · 1

@Alexin I pretty much only play multiplayer, and I like the idea quite a bit of subbing out Concussive) blow for One) Way or Another. I've been thinking about what to replace the Power) of Justice with once Concussive) blow is gone, and after looking through events, I'm thinking instead of adding Vigilante) Training. The card itself can't be tutored, but it's cheap and can potentially tutor other justice events, such as One) Way or Another, a couple times for only one cost. What are people's thoughts about that substitution?

Nov 13, 2021 Therickc · 3

@Brian-V When I looked at Adam’s kit I didn’t think I would like it. At first using this deck I was a bit confused, but after a few games I totally get it. Once you get everything down, which is surprisingly easy with this deck, Warlock rolls with so many options. I think your comment of, “jack of all trades” is the perfect summary of how he works and this is a GREAT deck. Definitely not beginner friendly.

That being said, I don’t think Adam is for me. He just doesn’t fit my play style. My personal favorite so far has been stun lock venom. I think I lean towards focusing on a specific “thing” and less of “good at everything, master of none”.

Again. PHENOMENAL deck. I think it’s awesome.

Nov 14, 2021 robphifer · 1

Tried the deck and it played better than I expected it would. Ultimately I ended up making 2 changes:

  1. I took out a "Power of Justice" as there was only a single card in the deck where it was worth more than a single resource. I replaced it with "One way or another" which I was consistently happy to draw.
  2. I took out a "Power of Leadership" and replaced it with a "Make the call". I like this change so far, but am not 100% sold on it.

Nov 14, 2021 Smoothjedi · 1

Well, ignore my latest comment; I tried out Vigilante Training and it wasn't until it was on the board that I actually saw it was alter ego use. :(

Nov 14, 2021 WanderingTook · 119

@Brian-V What a ton of fun! Just took this out for a test-drive, and I was really impressed. But boy, you weren't kidding when you said that this deck takes some getting used to. There's a lot of subtle tactics in here that really reward thoughtful play, but they are easy to miss if it's your first time playing the deck.

Decks that tutor from the discard pile are incredibly powerful, and I'm glad to see the archetype come to Marvel Champions.

Once I've finished my current MTS playthrough, I'll probably stream some games with this deck.

Thanks for sharing!

Nov 15, 2021 Lobo1974 · 1

Brian can you recommend a replacement for the gommora basic, she’s my wife’s favourite so I can’t use it.

Nov 15, 2021 Vortilion · 28

@Lobo1974 "gommora basic"???? :-D

Nov 15, 2021 Judicator82 · 22

@Scientiavore Hi there! After reading this entire thread, I wanted to give you a little feedback, gamer to gamer. I don't know you, we've never met, my only interaction is this thread and your commentary.

My interpretation? You are irritating and it's easy to dismiss your opinions because of your lack of manners. Your style of discourse is aggressive and petty, You respond to every challenge with more more of the same each time.

If you want to be heard, you need to tone it waaaay down. Be polite and thoughtful. Employ diplomacy. Know your audience.

As to the deck itself, I tried it out this weekend and found it pretty successful! I haven't quite figured out the tutoring mechanic, but reading the deck description and the comments gave me inspiration to try again.

There was a lot of debate about the "Power of.." cards, and I find my opinons is neutral. I never found myself in a position to tutor, as I felt I had something better to do. Either way, they were always useful to use for Battle Mage.

@Lobo1974 Good luck on the substitution! Reading through, Gamora seems to be a core element to the "tutoring" strategy here. Is your wife is actually playing the Gamora Hero, I weould recommend just waiving the unqiue rule for this one instance.

Nov 15, 2021 Truffaz · 1

@Judicator82"There was a lot of debate about the "Power of.." cards, and I find my opinons is neutral. I never found myself in a position to tutor, as I felt I had something better to do. Either way, they were always useful to use for Battle Mage." As any other cards, that's what Scientiavore was saying. They are so often worth the same as any other card that you could play something that give you another option in your turn

Nov 15, 2021 Judicator82 · 22

@Truffazmy neutral opinion was due to my not understanding key functions of the deck, which I do now. Keeping Gamora alive and on the board, looking for specific Events to use your "Power of..." cards, or just straight tutoring for them could be very effective.

I will try the deck out again and post my feedback later this week.

Nov 15, 2021 Alexin · 131

After doing some playtesting, I come with my final tweaks to the deck and thus mi final version of this increible deck by @Brian-V

Full list here: marvelcdb.com

Now, when I play with my two friends, it happens that since a few weeks ago, we always play in a difficulty level where all villains have stalwart, in all campaings. And I think this level of difficulty should affect deck building strategies, and I am not comfortable playing a deck that has 4 status causing cards. Then, I made another list ready to simply ignore causing statuses. Very similar to the first one, but without those cards, and taking into account that my friends also avoid these type of cards while deck building. It happens to be a different gameplay, strategies and tactics. Here it is:

marvelcdb.com

Nov 15, 2021 Vortilion · 28

@Alexin "In leadership, I remove The Power of Leadership and replace it with Innovation, which is fantastic in the deck. The leadership "Power of" card is not critical at all, there is just Kaluu to pay for, and this one can also be paid with "Welcome Aboard"," You forgot about Summoning Spell. I wouldn't remove Power of Leadership, I needed it so often when playing this deck, especially Kaluu or Summoning Spell. Welcome Aboard is only limited the Kaluu. Also I think that Concussive Blow is extremely good cause it also deals 3 damage. Think Fast doesn't. So some of your choices don't seem very good to me... Or rather not thought through.

Nov 15, 2021 Scientiavore · 5

@Judicator82 Honestly, considering I've written a lot of comments over the span of over a week, without specifics this type of feedback is vague and not all that useful (unless you're implying everything I've written fits the bill). I wont deny that I can be belligerent, but usually it's not unprovoked. That being said, I'm not infallible, so if I was being an asshole I have no problem fessing up and apologizing.

Nov 15, 2021 camsimps · 1

@Scientiavore, as a casual gamer who just came here to browse decks, and who has no particular dog in this fight, I agree with what @Judicator82 said. You come across in your comments as extremely arrogant and belligerent, and that is likely the main reason why your suggestions and opinions are being dismissed out of hand. To use your own terms, yes, I think you were being an asshole, and maybe you really should think about fessing up, apologizing, and moving on. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. I'm just trying to provide some food for thought and reflection, and hopefully defuse what has become by far the ugliest comment section I have ever come across on this site.

Nov 15, 2021 Smoothjedi · 1

@Scientiavore I guess if you are looking for specific feedback on what seemed to provoke everyone first, your initial post contained: "You may be too proud to ever admit this, but I'm afraid you're wrong...". Then after suggesting several changes that fundamentally changes how the deck works, you ultimately presented an ally swarm deck as your fix.

When people have repeatedly told you that you're breaking the spirit of the deck with these changes, you have been the one too proud to listen and instead started publicly lamenting how unfair everyone was being towards you.

There have been several people throughout the thread who have just been suggesting a few card changes here and there, and there's been some productive back and forth. Hell, even I made a post or two with some pretty bad ideas. However, you're the only one who seems to be having their feelings hurt and lashing out at anyone who doesn't think the deck needs a complete overhaul.

Nov 15, 2021 Alexin · 131

@Vortilion I see your point about The Power of Leadership, it is not an obvious choice, but I give the edge to Innovation. It can go either way.

About Concussive Blow, I stick to my argument. IF I am in hero form, then confusing villain is of no use to me, and I am 95% of time in hero form. So the card becomes a 3 damage per cost of 3, which seems a poor ratio to me

Nov 15, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@Alexin Personally, I wouldn't take out The Power of Leadership for the reasons @Vortilion said, even if you're going to take a few out. I had someone tell me they played the deck last night and got Summoning Spell x3 in one turn. And that's really what they're there for. So that you can do stuff like that. The spirit of the deck is designed to be very versatile. Sometimes when I am not fully set up, I find I do actually need a confuse because I didn't get Soul World set up or I'm still digging for Mystic Senses and Spiritual Meditation.

Also, when I play on Heroic, I find I actually do take damage and have to flip to use Soul World and get some more allies out on the board. In Heroic, I have to confuse and hopefully get a Cosmic Ward as well. I also think during multiplayer, I would assume your partner will also flip sometimes. Of course if you only plan on playing with house rules where every villain has Stalwart, of course they are of no use to you, and for sure I would go another route! (But then couldn't you also just say that you play any villain with a house rule, like they all have Piercing, and then even you putting in Hard Knocks makes no sense).

All that being said, I totally encourage people to make changes that work for their playstyle. Just because I like to play the deck where Quantum Magic is more unlocked and becomes efficient through 'Power Ofs', or that I like to predict how I will make those matches through looking at my discard doesn't mean people absolutely have to play that way, of course. Everyone has a different playstyle that they like, I don't think one way is the "best" way.

Nov 15, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@Lobo1974 Oh, that's tough! Gamora is pretty important to the deck and I also like that thematically she's in the deck because I think they team up in the comics at one point. I would house rule it! Unless she wants Gamora all to herself, haha.

Nov 15, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@toliveischrist77 @Therickc @WanderingTook Thanks guys/gals, really appreciate the positive feedback. I love that people are having such fun playing this deck and makes the write-up (that took me forever) totally worth it.

Nov 16, 2021 bigfomlof · 1

I don't publish decks here, but I sure steal a lot of them, and this one is going to be great! I was initially lukewarm on Warlock out of the box, but this gets me excited to try him.

As a guy who talks about this game weekly, I'd like to publically commend the folks here who are doing their level best to insist that we remain a positive and supportive community. I just don't see deck lists as a hill to die on and/or be a jerk about! Don't like it? Don't play it! Build your own!

Why on earth one would be compelled to attack an important contributor to this game and community is beyond me. Lighten up, learn something, be cool. It's just a game, like, you know, to play and have fun.

So, thank you again to all of you above doing the right thing.

Daniel

Nov 16, 2021 Scientiavore · 5

@Smoothjedi So first, regarding the quote: it's not like there was no precedence or nothing to go by. In his deck summary he writes how it's one of the main things people point out. In the comments, when someone pointed it out, his go-to response was dismissive, saying the guy just didn't know how to play the deck. This seems to be his stance, there seems to be a LOT of evidence that he's simply not interested in hearing arguments in this regards. I don't think I'm out of line here for pointing this out.

"When people have repeatedly told you that you're breaking the spirit of the deck with these changes, you have been the one too proud to listen and instead started publicly lamenting how unfair everyone was being towards you...

However, you're the only one who seems to be having their feelings hurt and lashing out at anyone who doesn't think the deck needs a complete overhaul."

This again. Let me make something very clear, because I hate having to have repeat myself over this yet again. I don't give a rat's ass whether people follow my suggestions or not in a ccg (let-alone a cooperative one). I don't give a rat's ass if people disagree with me. But I take offense at people trying to gaslight me over what I supposedly said or didn't say. I have repeated my stance on this multiple times already.

Let me summarize once more (I have repeatedly pointed this out multiple times on here already):

1) The idea that my suggestions are for a different archetype was falsely being pointed out to me even before any deck was posted. I'd argue that if my initial suggestions would constitute a different "archetype", than decks such as Alexin's would also be a different archetype. I've consistently challenged people to point out just how exactly would my suggestions make for a different deck type, and nobody's been able to show me how; funny enough, no one seems to be considering that to be the case for Alexin either, gee I wonder why? It's a load of bullshit.

You can end this all yourself by pointing out how it's different, but you wont be able to (just like all the other times I asked), because again it's all fabricated bullshit.

2) The first deck I initially posted had less to do with this deck, and more to do with deckbuilding with Adam Warlock in general (that was the main topic in that comment); I used it as an example because it was a deck that I had more experience working with. I've also pointed this out multiple times.

3) I also posted an example for this deck type specifically, once again summarizing my positions, which conveniently seems to be ignored. In fact, I pointed this out to you specifically. I mean, wtf's up with that? Why would you pretend otherwise?

I mean, I've literally pointed all of this out to you already.

Do I get aggravated when I have to repeat the same things over and over, due to people misrepresenting my views (in some instances due to likely arguing in bad faith) despite consistently repeating myself already? Yes. That makes me an asshole how? Sorry but I refuse to be gaslit, I don't see why I should have to put up with it.

Again, I don't give two shits what you or anybody else decides to do in a ccg, or if you or anyone else wants to have a discussion. But yea, people trying to gaslight me pisses me off regardless, who would have thought? And apparently I'm the bad guy for getting upset?

Want to have a civil discussion with me? It's not hard, just don't pull this bullshit.

Nov 16, 2021 bigfomlof · 1

Perhaps my post above was unclear....

Nov 16, 2021 Scientiavore · 5

@bigfomlof Did you bother to actually read the comment? Unless, are you suggesting that I am supposed to just take bullshit and disrespect with a smile and move on, is that what you're suggesting?

Nov 16, 2021 Smoothjedi · 1

@Scientiavore That's what I'm planning on doing, because otherwise this interminable, pointless argument is never going to end.

Nov 16, 2021 bigfomlof · 1

@Scientiavore, I'm not asking you to do anything, other than maybe realize we're talking about a card game (a cooperative card game!) here and that there's enough actual horror in the world worth confrontation.

Look, you actually feel your identity is threatened here and your intellect is in question--it isn't. What the community is hoping you'll sign on to is the idea that we're all here to have a good time and engage in respectful dialogue. I read your comments (all of them), and I see how much being understood matters to you, but you don't exist in a vacuum--we all are looking for that validation, I suppose. I don't really understand why this particular deck got you to the place it did, and I hope you can retreat off the hill you're defending. Cuz it doesn't really matter.

I wish the best for you, my friend.

Nov 16, 2021 Scientiavore · 5

@Smoothjedi Like I said, all you'd have to do is point out where I've supposedly said what you claim. It's the easiest thing to do in the world, literally every comment is here for everyone to read, and no one can edit it. But we both know why you can't. Funny how you only quoted one thing in your comment. You're full of shit.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, maybe you didn't actually bother to read what was written. So maybe you're not a complete shit person. Still messed up to be so insistent somebody said something if you didn't actually read though.

Nov 16, 2021 Scientiavore · 5

@bigfomlof I appreciate you trying to understand. It's not about my intellect or identity or anything like that. I just don't like people messing with me over what I supposedly said or didn't say. It's not a weird thing to get upset about...

Nov 16, 2021 KodadtheLibrarian · 1

@Brian-V I tried this deck. It was fun. Great job! Keep on tutoring! All aboard on the Tutoring Train! CHOOO CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Nov 16, 2021 WanderingTook · 119

@Lobo1974 @Brian-V I would play both Gamoras, and pretend that one is from an alternate universe. The great thing about card games (as opposed to video games) is that you can play however you want, and nobody can tell you otherwise!

Nov 16, 2021 Smoothjedi · 1

@Scientiavore :)

@Lobo1974 @WanderingTook Yeah there really isn't a good substitute for Gamora; she plays a pretty unique role in the deck that no other ally in the game can fill. I'd also just bend the rules and play with both!

Nov 16, 2021 Alexin · 131

Hi @Brian-V, thanks so much fro all your valuable inputs. Not always one has the chance of debating with the designer of the tool to dominate the universe :) Now, I fully understand your point about The Power of Leadership vs Innovation, and the focus on Summoning Spell. As I said, this is not one my clearest tweaks, but I still want to give a slight edge to innovation because it heals an ally and can pay for a card of any aspect, so I wouldn´t say to goes against the versatility of the deck.

Same as the deck allows you to play Summoning Spell several times in a given turn, it allows you also to play "Think Fast!" several times through a cycle if needed, but if you get both "Think Fast!" and Concussive Blow in the same turn, one will be dead. And having villain confused in order to flip to heal is not mandatory. It might happen that there is no threat on the main scheme and then you can flip safety.

Hard Knocks is not the strongest my tweaks, either. I felt the need to replace an attack with an attack (concerned with having enough for Martial Prowess) and thought the HARD status would give me more tme before having to flip to heal while remaining in hero form.

Regarding the stalwart villains, it is NOT a house rule of us. It is an environment card of normal II set, permanent from the start and with a text that reads "Villain gains stalwart". For some reason I am not able to find it here in the database, but it is a card you are prompted to play with while in expert mode. My group have decided to raise the stakes and play at this difficulty level, which affects our deckbuilding strategies. I don´t know how tough heroic mode is, but I can tell for sure that replacing both normal and expert core sets with normal II and expert II sets, and playing with the environment that makes all villains gain stalwart, is a nightmare.

Unfortunatly, I didn´t have the chance yet to play the deck in multiplayer yet, just solo. And while solo I don´t play against permastalwart opponents, just play in a "soft expert" mode. Will test it multiplayer when we start next campaing. Regards from across the universe :)

Nov 16, 2021 InigoMontoya · 454

I highly recommend that anyone wanting to try to this deck out use the Card Draw Simulator above to maximize your first few turns. It really does help to practice first. :)

Nov 17, 2021 CptRetcon · 1

Thank you for making this deck.

Nov 17, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@Alexin My pleasure. :) I think it's "Steady", not "Stalwart", no? I live in the US and don't have Hood yet though. If so, in that case, I would think multiple stuns/confuses that people shy away from in this deck would actually be more valuable, not less?

@CptRetcon @KodadtheLibrarian Thank you and you're welcome! :)

Nov 17, 2021 Smoothjedi · 1

@Schmendrix @Brian-V @Nhojm Last night we against Thanos in a three player game, and although status effect cards weren't useful against the boss, we had a lot of beefy minions on the table and applying status effects to them alongside some damage helped alleviate a good amount of pressure on teammates. So I definitely found a lot of value keeping the cards in the deck.

Nov 25, 2021 Celephais · 1

I played two games with this and thought it was pretty strong- then realised I was playing Battle Mage wrong and discarding the top card of my deck! So this is going to be insane when I'm actually playing correctly - thank you for making it!

I was sceptical about the Power of cards myself but you can really see there value after one game. I always love decks that let me use my discard pile as a resource and this ticks all the right boxes, being fun to play (if you like the style) and insanely powerful once you're going.

Nov 26, 2021 Zorbane · 7

Just used this deck in my first MTS playthrough. Incredibly fun experience. Coupled with this being the best campaign box imo, the deck just hums and makes the game feel completely different (in a good way!). My biggest challenge with this deck was falling into the routine of great stability (board clearing/threat clearing) plays. As stated in the writeup, the damage potential is huge. I would have to pull myself out of the "good" play to realize I could lay down 20+ villain damage easily in the turn. Look forward to using this deck in other scenarios and looking at other deck builds from @Brian-V!

Nov 26, 2021 Celephais · 1

@Zorbane I definitely get that - it's easy to get wrapped up in the tableau-porn of just seeing how much you can get done each turn, instead of just flipping the switch and going nuclear!

Nov 27, 2021 99neil99 · 9

Not that is needed, but I figured out a badass combo for Adam Warlock. If you run call for aid & no avenger allies = 1 instant counter on Soul World. This still works well if you run 1 avenger ally as well. Big deck out card for him. Solid stuff.

Nov 27, 2021 AlwaysAngryJay · 462

Really cool deck, got to play a few rounds and was super impressed. I managed to play Fury 4 turns back to back and could have played him on the next turn but the Villain died. Absolutely crazy what this deck can pull off.

Also learned that Gamora's ability does require you to be in hero form so don't make that mistake I did. Was trying to get my deck to reshuffle before I flipped up and use a Soul Counter.

Great list @Brian-V and really enjoy your other lists too, awesome stuff!

Nov 28, 2021 kattattack22 · 1

This a pretty fun deck. I really like the card advantage this deck generates with power of's, Welcome Aboard, and the allies that pull out an event. There are so options for Quantum magic mid to late game.

Nov 30, 2021 Brian-V · 15093

@Zorbane Haha, I've done the same. Often I'm making sure I have the threat at 0 on the main scheme and not realizing I have enough damage in hand to end it. Usually when I'm set up, I have to force myself to flip the damage switch.

@AlwaysAngryJay Thanks man, really appreciate it. A fan of your decklists on here as well.

Nov 30, 2021 rbuggelli · 1

I used a bit modified version of this deck (added in a Target Acquired and added an extra card for each aspect) and we were able to take down Gamora along with my wife's Black Widow Leadership deck. This deck is pretty insane and loads of fun. The discard pile is basically your extended hand. I brought back Nick Fury multiple times and ended up having 3 Soul counters by the end. Cosmic Wards took out all of those awful Treachery cards in Nebula's deck. Getting out both Mystic Senses is key and pay attention to the allies in your discard pile if you play Summoning Spell. After 3 or 4 turns, I was always able to bring out a blocker which allowed me to defend against Pirate quickstrikes. I think I may replace Concussive Blow with Determination but otherwise, this has been the most fun deck I have played

Nov 30, 2021 AtomicDuckie · 1

Wow I wish this thread was easier to follow through all of the fighting among players. There is some really good discussion that is largely covered up through the mountains of pointless squabbling.

Dec 02, 2021 MatBe · 1

Thanks for this deck, I tried it recently vs Ebony Maw and it was very solid/efficient. Not my usual playstyle but I really liked it nonetheless. Kudos.